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In Episode 4 of There’s So Much Sh** Out There, Havas Southern Africa’s podcast, head of Havas PR Larry Khumalo talks to Havas Southern Africa CEO Lynn Madeley, senior copywriter at Havas Johannesburg Adam Abelson, and copywriter at Havas Johannesburg Zamazwide Nxumalo about the ups and downs of managing talent in adland.

TSMSOT is Havas Southern Africa’s fortnightly podcast where Head of Havas PR, Larry Khumalo, discusses with some Havasians, various topics that touch on the business of marketing and the creative economy in South Africa and beyond.