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Google aims to stop ‘agency fraud'

14 Nov 2008 13:3566 commentsBizLike
Myth and misunderstanding is leading to digital mayhem in the industry, whereby agencies are being accused by digital behemoth Google of committing fraud or, at the very least, irresponsible accounting with their clients cash online. As a result, Google announced today, Friday, 14 November 2008, that it would be ‘Google certifying' five key agencies leading this space in 2009.
Google South Africa country manager Stafford Masie addressed a media/client roundtable this morning in Johannesburg and explained his horror at the way some media and advertising agencies were bamboozling their clients as to the cost of online Google campaigns, “adding on 17 - 37% markups” in some cases and not allowing clients to see the true value or results of their Google adwords campaigns, “because they were too complicated for the client to understand”.

“The agencies are getting away with murder,” said Masie, admitting that he knew his comments were provocative. “We are aiming to be disruptive. Marketers are being taken for a ride.”

Five agencies

Google therefore intends to level the playing field a bit by introducing 'Google certified agencies' in 2009 to work hand-in-hand strategically with clients, due to the financial "killing some agencies are making off ill-informed clients".

"There won't be more than five of them (agencies), to build necessary capability and understanding, so when they go to clients, they position digital correctly."

Masie said the lack of cohesion and understanding in the media and marketing industry, and among the bigger and medium sized ad agencies of the digital ecosystem, was causing confusion and not helping with the understanding of digital in SA.

“Agencies are worried about us. We are being disruptive... but they go in, they bill clients incorrectly. There is fraud happening. What really peeves me, is they say: ‘Give us R100 000 and we'll sort it out... trust me'. They will not disclose to clients what their Google campaigns entail.”

Tweet

When Bizcommunity.com blogged and tweeted the above news feed live from the event this morning, Twitter flamed with immediate comment. One tweet asked: “Another revenue stream for Google - how much will those five certified agencies have to cough up for the privilege?”

When the question was put live to Masie during the roundtable debate, he answered: “We are not only going to work with these agencies, we won't be a cartel... The certification will cost nothing. People get us wrong. This is not about making money - this is to ensure that we will build referential agencies - so there is a model in the industry that people can follow. We will have experts out there to enable various Google tools... we will provide training on all the tools. We want to broadly empower the industry.”

He said the intention was not to incur additional revenue. “The objective is the following: the industry is very fragmented. We are going to educate the industry, share our tools and knowledge with the industry. But to bring the two together, we are going to take the first step.”

Digital divide costs

The fact is that the continued digital divide is costing clients cold hard cash, and as FNB media director Gisele Wertheim-Aymes, who participated in the debate, pointed out, the onus is on marketers to upskill themselves in order to brief their agencies correctly - and keep them in check.

“Clients get involved in digital very little. They leave it up to the agencies. There is a huge challenge in digital. Major media buying companies are not geared up at all for digital, let alone Google. They are outsourcing to smaller agencies who can do it - but it adds additional steps to the process. It delays the response to opportunities online.”

She pointed out that SA users were transacting heavily on banking websites, using search heavily. FNB has in fact shifted ad spend from banner advertising into search (which is unfortunately not tracked by Adindex).

“The big challenge for the industry and for clients is to get their head around this and take it seriously and know how Google works and have people inside your organisation that can make it work. There is not a model that lends itself to it. The whole media model has changed online. Clients have to start treating this digital space far more seriously. When things happen quickly, in now time, real time, you can't wait 10 days for a plan. You have to be agile to capitalise on opportunities online.”

'Googleyed'

As Masie points out, big agencies don't have strong digital competencies inhouse and the big and medium agencies don't have the agility needed to act on opportunities as they happen. Marketers are asking questions around who do they target, where do they start?

And this is why Google will be empowering key agencies in this space, he says, as well as training marketers and agencies in general going forward on the various Google tools, search engine optimisation (SEO) and key search word advertising.

“Agencies are making money out of this innuendo and mystery in the digital space. Google is trying to fix this with education,” he emphasised.

Wertheim-Aymes, denying she is only ‘Googleyed', remarked that Google was a catalyst in the industry and had created a consciousness of what is going around out there in the digital space.

“Look at how people use the internet. Digital has to be put on the agenda - spend is below global levels. If you are a good marketer you will put digital on the agenda along with face-to-face promotional events in kraals in rural areas if that is what your brand requires. The responsibility rests with marketers. Technology is changing the world. It is not just up to the agencies. Technology changed the US Presidential election. This is a changing world. Understanding digital and how Google enables that will give a clever marketer the edge. We cannot escape it.”

Masie has promised to continue the conversation on the Bizcommunity.com editorial blog. Additional contributors: Simone Puterman, Bizcommunity.com assistant editor who tweeted the news.
 
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About Louise Marsland

Louise Marsland is editor-in-chief and brand strategist of AdVantage magazine. Email her on , read her blog on Bizcommunity and follow her and AdVantage on Twitter at @Louise_Marsland and @advantagemag.View profile and articles...
Finance advertiser in SA
Has Stafford told the media that google give agencies commision-
mmm, i wonder if Stafford has also told the media that Google give commission to agencies for bringing them CASH.

Google are forgetting where their bread is buttered. Its absolutely amazing how Google have adopted a completely different policy in South Africa as opposed to the rest of the world.

Stafford runs around screaming and preaching about Youtube. If you are a brand that wants 2 million Fat kids in Canada to view your ad, and if thats a good client base for you, then off you go,

4 words I ..love...this...companeeeeeeee Posted on 14 Nov 2008 13:58
We do not pay agencies commission-
Hi there - this is Stafford Masie from Google South Africa. We do not pay agencies in South Africa any commission. That is completely incorrect. We do in fact have an agency commission fund available within other geographies. In South Africa we do not pay any agency commission. Again, your accusation here is incorrect. Regarding YouTube - no comment ;-) Thanks for the post! Please email me at staffordmasie@gmail.com is you have any questions or concerns regarding any Google products and services and I'll be happy to assist where possible. Thanks again! Stafford Posted on 14 Nov 2008 17:47
sick and tired of backstabbing
Stafford - we are based in south africa and recieve agency commision-
As i said above, we are based in South Africa and are part of the best practice funding program which is a nice word for "kickback" with Google.

I have the emails and bank statements to prove it.

I think a question we are all dying for you to anser is the following:

Are Google adopting a different policy in SA than the rest of the world. Our international reps support us, know who we are, wouldnt dare go direct into one of our clients.
Is this Google's strategy in SA?
If not, why have you gone direct to clients that already have adwords spend with you for years. You cant say you didnt know. You have not even contacted the agencies running these campaigns.

Please answer this for all of us Posted on 15 Nov 2008 09:53
Thank you!-
Firstly, thanks for providing the detail behind your questions - I'll try my best to answer each one clearly;

To start; Google South Africa is currently responsible for a set named account list (as stated before - approx 40 right now). Every one of our clients outside of this account list work with the Google online sales operation (the South Africa focused team), based in Ireland.

Google South Africa has NEVER paid any agency BPF and will not do so either. We find that agencies in South Africa actually bill clients management fees which we do not get involved in at all. So, yes, we are different in that regard to the UK who you are working with.

FYI: The BPF is being phased out in the UK - who you are working with - and we have announced that from 2009 onwards BPF will no longer exist in the UK.

So, I am absolutely certain you probably have statements and proof re the BPF for your org but it is the UK operation you're working with - not the named account clients we, as Google SA, are focused upon.

So, to be crystal clear; Google South Africa will not be introducing the BPF for the named account list we work on. We have not seen any conflict with any one agency since we've established our presence here - we hope we don't either...if we do, we'll engage the agency fairly and with good business practise.

Answers to your specific questions;

Google SA is not following the UK operation so we will not be introducing the BPF locally for the agencies and clients we are responsible for. Regarding the article above and what we mentioned on Friday; we working closely with the 5 agencies that presently are engaging with our named account list clients - we hope to introduce certification, training, and services to ALL agencies in South Africa in Q1 2009 - so that everyone can replicate the success we have had with these 5 agencies in our current client base. It will be completely open to all...transparent...and nothing is exclusive. Clients and agencies have asked us to provide our insight and best practises and work closely with them to build the right competencies, capacity and capability to maximize the Google tools and services; we hope to share these learning in an open and structured manner. This is to work jointly with EVERYONE to ensure we max'ing on our Google potential - we may not get it right the first time but we're committed to discussing it and altering/fixing/appending where we've gone wrong. (At minimum, we want to engage the South African eco-system and start the debate/reasoning - which this article has spawned)

You asked; "why have you gone direct to clients that already have adwords spend with you for years. You cant say you didnt know. You have not even contacted the agencies running these campaigns." - yes, we have engaged the clients on our named account list ONLY - some of these clients had never executed on a Google campaign, whilst others had done so for quite a few years. Yes we do know of every single business in South Africa that are our clients - but my DSO (aka Google South Africa) operation only engages in a limited amount of clients. Note: In almost all of the clients we have on our named account list we are actively engaging with and through the agencies. Our aim is not to disintermediate - it does not benefit us...we work with agencies...we want to work with agencies...therefore we have said that we will CLEARLY communicate to all agencies through 2009...the best way to work with us...and find out what everyone expects from us. Our responsibility is to ensure we lend a hand to grow and mature the digital landscape in South Africa - we couldn't possibly do this without working in harmony with agencies - which we are doing today...within the named account list we are responsible for. (Note: Please send me an email with the clients whose agencies we have not contacted - I do not know of one...and if there is - we will ensure we engage them positively and constructively!) Posted on 16 Nov 2008 15:01
pretty flowers
Google Farm-
Google the good animals turn into bad men. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 14:19
How will the agencies be elected?-
Ok, so does Google SA know ALL the agencies in SA that invest marketer's budgets into Google? And will each be interviewed, and a due dillegence investigation take place?
We're certainly not defrauding our clients in any way, but have yet to be contacted by Google SA....
If Google SA is going to go around mouthing off that only the 5 selected agencies are credible .... there is certainly one very p'd off agency that's going to be sitting here wondering why we should bother ... Posted on 14 Nov 2008 15:29
Agency selection-
Hi there again, this is Stafford (country manager of Google SA) again ;-) I promised to respond to most of the comments and posts so here's my second response regarding the "selection process" and these 5 agencies mentioned.

Look, there will not be ONLY 5 agencies. They will not pay Google SA (or vice versa) and neither will they get any preferential treatment whatsoever! (NOTE: There has been no "selection process" - below will explain it a little more)

Please understand the following; Google South Africa's direct sales organization is currently engaging with approx 40 clients in South Africa. This number should increase as we build the necessary capacity and prove successful within this initial base. We are working in unison with agencies within most of these 40 clients - right now there are 5 of them.

These agencies, as are many others, have struggled to truly integrate digital media into their traditional campaigns and delivery models. We're currently helping them to compile these strategies and build the teams within their orgs, and interlock with the rest of the organization. The intent: create the strategy, competency, capability, capacity and deliverables that give our joint clients true end-to-end marketing campaigns - digital integrated with traditional.

Again, we have 5 agencies currently covering these 40 clients. Over the past year these agencies and clients have requested that Google provide greater clarity and communicate what it believes are optimal business structures within agencies and customer environments to maximize the potential of Google's services. We have worked and are working with these 5 agencies currently covering our area of responsibility to personify this.

Note that we do not have the model completely done just yet - there are some teething problems creating this capacity, competency and capability. Hopefully we'll have a model that everyone can replicate because we have proven it to be successful within the clients we are focused upon.

Once successful we want to announce these 5 agencies as flagships that we have proven and consequently platforms and services that will enable ALL and EVERYONE to replicate this success within their businesses - agencies and clients throughout the industry.

Yes, it may be a monumental task but we believe it is necessary for us to evolve our ecosystem to fully and properly support digital. Digital media is still a mystery to many clients - if we are successful with this endeavor, it will benefit all...and we will want to embrace all to replicate it!

This is merely the FIRST STEP towards communicating a clearer and detailed message to the advertising community re Google's expectations from partners, what we're able to provide partners to empower them, and also what we would like to do with EVERYONE ELSE!

Let me make this categorically clear (apologies for the repetition); our intent is to announce that we have 5 agencies covering our existing direct sales operation clients, which we have worked with to build the necessary partnering model, competencies, and capacity. The intention here is NOT to do anything exclusive with any one of these agencies... We simply want to create a benchmark and case studies of successful agencies we have empowered...and the message will be that we invite every other agency to engage with us to be empowered in a similar manner. (Yes, we will be providing training and services accessible to EVERYONE so they can also do this - e.g. a training schedule to be announced to cross pollinate and do the necessary skills transfer...from Google analytics basics through to integrating traditional messaging into digital)

We are NOT saying that there will be only 5 agencies recognized in South Africa by Google South Africa - to the contrary - we will be telling the entire industry that our current clients, which we have the capacity to service (those 40 or so), we are working in unison with agencies that have made the investment to restructure, build capacity and create capacity to deliver on Google's services...to the maximum benefit of our clients.

AGAIN...our intent is that in Q1 2009 we announce a certification program to empower EVERYONE...and 5 case studies proving the success. We will ensure that this certification embraces the largest to the smallest of businesses.

Obviously there are many questions regarding the details of the certification and recognition. As we move into '09 we will continue to communicate the facts.

Hopefully this clarifies it a little more...We would like to see FIVE THOUSAND agencies in South Africa capable of delivering Google digital services in a verbose and integrated manner.

Thanks for you post

Stafford Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:28
What bollocks-
Stafford, you are claiming that you, know better than the agencies that have been doing this for years, or actually DO know better. Some of these agencies have been handling specific client campaigns on Google for YEARS, and know exactly what works for them, and what doesn't. Do you honestly think you are the holy grail? So YOU, are going to assist clueless agencies (by your own admission), and have them fall pray to YOUR way of thinking (ie, investing clients' budgets unwisely). So once brainwashed by your "you should be spending more money", then they qualify?
Your comments are so contradictory - they are "recognised" agencies / preferential ... then they're not ...
Why don't you simply stop focussing on YOU, and actually do GOOGLE a favour, and echo the ethos and image that Google portrays on a global scale .. embrace those who have the means to work WITH you .. don't alienate them. You have a LOT of work to do in repairing damage that you've left in your wake .. good luck Posted on 14 Nov 2008 19:37
Bollocks?-
Hi there, we are certainly not trying to portray a holy grail or surface that we know some things better than anyone else. The fact is that the state of the union re digital media in our local ecosystem...is not healthy! At minimum we're extremely fragmented and our efforts are not really synchronous. So. we are simply going to try and assist everyone by communicating a clear message re our tools and services - not to dictate to all...but rather embrace all and empower where possible from a Google perspective. Hopefully we can add value - once we do communicate this certification and platforms to be certified...the discussion will broaden. We may not get it right the first time, but we are absolutely open to comments and suggestions. Note: I can only point to one small fact; less than 1% of total advertising spend in SA is actually spent on digital mediums. There are so many reasons for this and we are going to try our best to enable and empower everyone to convince those clients that they should allocate more to us...because we have the capability, competency, and capacity to deliver. That will not be to just 5 agencies...we hope that will be to ALL agencies! If you feel you have the experience, insights, and learnings...please engage me; staffordmasie@gmail.com Posted on 14 Nov 2008 20:13
Glen
Pathetic-
So 5 agencies [no doubt with the biggest client base regardless of their ethical persuasion] will be admitted into the ‘inner circle’ Why penalize the upright folk that make Google what it is, for the sake of few bandits whom you find in every industry? What about blacklisting? Typical Massie sledge hammer approach.....no wonder he is not winning any friends. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 15:58
Incorrect-
See my response above - Stafford. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:29
Jules
Sweeping statements!-
Alienating potential partners and advocates is not wise nor painting all with same tar-brush! Posted on 14 Nov 2008 16:02
Not the intent-
Apologies if it comes across this way. But we are not painting everyone with the same brush. There are AMAZING agencies out there that are doing AMAZING work with clients. We do not believe that everyone is bad, although we have observed some "interesting" business models and client billings. Hopefully this effort we'll announce in Q1'09 clarifies what we believe clients have asked us to assist them with...and also their agencies. Stafford (Google SA). Please email me at staffordmasie@gmail.com if you need further clarification. Thanks! Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:33
pissedoff
Will never deal with Google again-
Google have no idea what they are doing in SA. They undercutting the agencies, cant put a campaign together themselves and then stop advertisers bidding on keywords cos they want the clicks to themselves for their own products ( yellow pages SA)

I can see a massive anti google SA campaign starting here in SA.

From a few people who have heard Stafford speak, he blurts it all out, promises the world, cant back things up, trying to sell youtube to SA agencies for their clients,
I would love stafford to actually blurt out some true facts, ie: what is the conversion rate for clients like on youtube,

Funny how google have a great name in the international markets and support agencies in a fantastic way headed up by decent people 2+2 = ????

We will be withdrawing our Google spends with immediate effect. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 16:20
Let's talk!-
Hi, this is Stafford himself - I am sorry that your experience with Google has been so negative. Please email me at staffordmasie@gmail.com and I will gladly try and assist where possible to answer your questions and address your specific concerns. Hopefully a blog post and an article on a website does not incur this retaliation. I am more than willing to engage and listen to your concerns/questions - if you decide to still withdraw spend and disengage, then it is qualified and I will concede openly. I can only ask that you engage me directly. Thanks! Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:38
kolakidd
Say Wha?-
Isn't this the same Stafford Masie that got a formal complaint filed with the Competition Commission against Google South Africa for anti-competitive behaviour.

That sounds a lot more like fraud than over-charging customers. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 16:24
No merit-
Hi there, we have openly responded to the Competition Commission filing that was broadcast; Again, those claims are all without merit and the competition commission has not yet ruled on the matter. Stafford (Google SA country manager) Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:42
"Defrauding" agencies - who are these exactly?-
How about simply naming the few (which I'm sure is less than 5 in any event!) that ARE defrauding their clients, and leave the rest of us who are ethical, and been manging Google spend for our clients for years! (Long before the fog horn arrived, and started telling our clients that they know better - yes, calling on OUR clients!)
We'll continue dealing with the US rep's, thanks. For Yanks, they sure don't strike as being arrogant know all's, and certainly appreciate the support and business from people they never met Posted on 14 Nov 2008 16:29
Anti google from now on!!!
Google have gone direct to our clients too-
agreed, we will only deal with USA and Ireland Google staff from now on.

Google have been going direct to OUR clients.
Another agency that wont deal with Google or in fact, Stafford ever...tick, goodbye
We are very ethical in out SEM ways and know a lot of companies that are.

Stafford generalizing is just absolutely cheeky and STUPID. iF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, RATHER SHUT UP. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 16:37
Calling on our clients-
I can prove, that when a client of our's was convinced by B.S. that Google knew best, we said sure, we'll blow your money if you like, and prove you, and them wrong ... and we sure did. Google SA knows squat about their own product and what does, and doesn't work for clients. All they tell our clients, is that they're not spending enough and would do better if they did ... not so, and we have the data to prove it Posted on 14 Nov 2008 16:40
Proof?-
My Google SA team are an absolutely awesome team of people that work very closely with clients and agencies - we would never tell our clients or agency partners we know more than they do. Additionally, I do not know of a client of ours that is dissatisfied with our efforts. Obviously we hope our clients will increase their spend with us...that's business...and we will continue to convince them to do this ensuring we're outlining the return on their investments.

Stafford Posted on 14 Nov 2008 20:32
Let's talk-
I cannot respond to your accusations if I don't have the facts. I do disagree with your observations and conclusions. Please email me your exact concerns and questions and I will gladly engage you to resolution: staffordmasie@gmail.com - Stafford Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:46
Really?-
You say that Google is engaging directly with your clients? Please indicate who these clients are. Your statement/accusation is incorrect - we work very closely with agencies and what we've disclosed today is a program we're introducing in 2009 to enable them even more. Note: We work with agencies throughout the client base we're engaging. Please email me your clients and relevant complaints and I'll address immediately; staffordmasie@gmail.com. Thanks, Stafford. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:53
wake up
Rubbish-
You work very closely with agencies,

Absolute rubbish Stafford,

I wont say who we are, but we are one of the bigger agencies in SA, i have never ever met you, nor have you tried to make an appointment,

Please tell me, Do the decision makers at Google Inc, know what you are doing in SA, tarnishing the google name?

I very much doubt it. I will be following this up with management in London and Mountain view, with whom we have a very good relationship for year.

How long have you been doing PPC stafford, which qualifies you to discuss ppc campaigns with clients to help them with not only traffic ( which im sure you are good at), but rather and more importantly Conversion. Posted on 15 Nov 2008 09:59
IAB man
absolutely not the line in the rest of the world-
We work with Google in India, US, EU and with clients across Africa. The Google teams do understand that they are only part of the mix and for many of the campaigns that we create and execute on, Google are only a small part of the mix because their effect is only small.

If Google SA are seeking referential agencies, then by proxy they are seeking referential brands and the big international agencies will not take kindly at all to the the claims he has made.

Frankly if his actions are relating to specific agencies then those agencies will loose their clients. Google is not the policeman in this market and if they even consider jeopardizing agency and client relations then they will be sued. Agency.com are suing i-crossing partly due to client poaching and similarly this would happen to Google in SA.

I am sure that this exec is just speaking off his own bat and not officially for Google - if he is speaking officially, then we will happily talk to his overlords in the US and our partners in the global agencies. IPA, MMA DMA IAB etc.... that would then enble him to understand what referential really means. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 16:40
Google South Africa-
Hi there, please don't read an article and make all the assumptions you have. It would be awesome if you rather contacted my office or me (staffordmasie@gmail.com) to discuss your concerns. I am not sure what you are specifically taking offense to so I will simply invite you to please contact me at staffordmasie@gmail.com - I will gladly engage you to hear your views and discuss all of this. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:58
Contact? Tried ... never get replies-
Oh trust me, I have tried to contact you after you "moved in" on one of our clients, in an effort to merely understand what it was we were perhaps missing, that you seemed to know so much better about... alas, no calls returned.... Don't invite discussion when you're not prepared to partake in it Posted on 14 Nov 2008 19:29
Let's try again?-
I'm not sure what you're referring to or who you are. Please email me at staffordmasie@gmail.com and let's re-engage. I commit to you that I will respond within 48 hours of you sending that message. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 20:17
telephone number please
sure, happy to contact you-
Sure, im happy to contact you, whats your Google SA office telephone number Stafford (whats the bet you wont provide it. Posted on 15 Nov 2008 15:27
ANTI-SA GOOGLE
never met the man!! BUT DAMN THIS IS BULLSH*T-
i was shocked by this article considering all i have heard is how arrogant this stafford guy is and well said by one respondent, yes the usa google staff look after us and we actually don't need sa reps after all have you even had the decency to chat to the current agencies in sa who actually spend moeny with you, those who make you money and pay your salaries?? and now you are trying to steal our clients and talking to our clients and trying to push their budgets up and trying to sway them to work with google and not agencies, i believe this is the only country in the world where google is pissing agencies off,how about a ppc plan we received from google for a client of ours recommending the most useless keywords to bid on,yes useless not even related, they just trying to screw our cleints and take more money off them, f*ck what's with google sa,keep going bru and bury yourself,i was initially happy you were in town but your arrogance and arrival has been disastrous,you could have arrived far more humble! Posted on 14 Nov 2008 18:58
Whoa...-
Clearly we've angered you! I don't think apologizing is going to help. So, I am disappointed that your disgruntlement you surface via this article commentary - I certainly have not heard from you via the usual business communications. PLEASE PLEASE email me and let's resolve what you think we're doing - we certainly do not want you to have this experience dealing with us! Stafford staffordmasie@gmail.com Posted on 14 Nov 2008 20:21
GOOGLE WHO?
if u make a statement about fraud, why not back it up!-
NOW U ARE SLATING AGENCIES WITH FRAUD!! GEEZ MAN GET A LIFE AS YOUR COMMENT IS VERY GENERAL, IF U GOT PROVE OF THIS OUT WITH IT AS YOU ARE MAKING THE SEM INDUSTRY SOUND EVIL, MAYBE THERE ARE SOME DUBIOUS AGENCIES AND NOW U WANT TO STAMP 5 AGENCIES WHY? WHY NOT STAMP ANY AGENCY THAT MEETS 'YOUR' STANDARDS! WHICH IS WHAT SPENDING A MILLION RAND A MONTH????? LET'S HOPE YOUR COURT APPEARANCE PUTS U IN PLACE, WASN'T SURE ABOUT THAT BUT NOW I SEE THAT GUYS POINT OF VIEW....I THINK IT IS CALLED BULLYING! Posted on 14 Nov 2008 19:04
Not bullying...-
It is unfortunate that the article heading is what it is. But that is not our primary intent here. Please see some of my other responses outlining what we're attempting. Additionally, you mention agencies meeting our standards; interestingly enough, most of the agencies we've engaged have requested that we assist and communicate our minimum standards and best practices - this is what we're attempting to relay and to assist everyone with. If we succeed, everyone should benefit and hopefully digital media spend will be incrementally more than what it is today.

P.S. Not sure what you're referring to re a court appearance. I'm not due to appear in any court - thank goodness ;-)

Stafford - staffordmasie@gmail.com Posted on 14 Nov 2008 20:04
incredible, incredible
most agencies ??-
Hi Stafford

Yes indeed, i agree with you in that most agencies have asked Google to work alongside them and help grow the clients,
ONLY TO FIND OUT YOU SITTING IN THEIR OFFICE 2 WEEKS LATER WITHOUT LETTING THE SAME AGENCY KNOW YOU ARE TALKING DIRECTLY.

Call this what you want, i call it UNETHIC

The same agency coming straight out of your meeting and calling us straight up telling us of the brainwashing session they just had.

This is only a Google SA tactic, let me tell you, its not working, its embarrasing for yourself, your staff and Google Inc.
Clients know that Google is a small part of their entire SEM solution,

Do me a favour and run google like they do in the rest of the world, ethically and clean with support to agencies.

You not making any friends, please dont talk at any SA conventions, keynotes etc as we are tired of BS. Posted on 15 Nov 2008 13:50
concerned but open to debate!
You keep saying contact me!-
Imagine if we contacted you and told you clients of ours that you have approached and clients you seem to be trying to move in on and tell them you can do better things for them? You would probably have Google ban us or something silly if we disgreed with you as I heard you did with Entelligence?? As per the previous comment why don't you hold a conference for all agencies and invite them all and chat to them and be more HUMBLE in your approach, after all they have been supporting Google for years now and here you come in and want to lay down the law!! I can imagine what would happen if an agency actually put their name up on here and challenged you, it would be their death-knul! You are not the 'king' brother and you should embrace all agencies who work with Google surely that isn't a difficult thing to do as you could easily find out who is spending money with you? So there is an 'idea' before implementing your "BIG FIVE' campaign, I know we are in SA but this is taking the BIG FIVE to a different meaning, hold a conference and embrace clients, don't alienate them, I would love to email you but I would probably be barred from Google! Posted on 14 Nov 2008 19:17
Please do!-
Hi there,

Firstly - all agencies out there are not bad and the heading of this article doesn't truly communicate the intent. Our primary intent is not to tackle fraud - our intent is to address challenges in the industry we're are specifically experiencing within our current client base; digital not being taken seriously, incorrectly budgeted for, incorrectly positioned, etc. (Obviously not everyone is doing and this is not what we're claiming either). So, to proactively HELP and EMPOWER agencies and clients we are going to launch a certification program and process that will not be charged for and will not be exclusionary. It will simply create a minimum standard to ensure clients and agencies are maximizing Google's potential and services.

We are not laying down an "law"...please don't interpret it as that. The intent is to engage, help and empower - our ecosystem needs this and our efforts here will hopefully embrace and benefit ALL. We also love agencies...without them we couldn't possibly be as successful as we are...therefore we'll do whatever we can, in unison with them, to add value!

Secondly - we have not "barred" any one agency in South Africa. Not one agency has any evidence in South Africa of Google actually having disintermediated them. Even the agency you mention above, besides all the allegations and claims, is still doing work with Yellow Pages today. The intention here is not to launch a BIG FIVE - not at all! We want to announce a certification program/process that will clearly inform agencies how best to engage us and leverage our services.

Clients...AND...agencies have asked us to do this - the aim? To ensure we consistently and clearly communicate how best to engage and leverage Google services. We may not get this right the first time but we're determined to ensure we empower as many agencies as possible; how? training programs and schedules and broad platform exposure.

I like your idea about having an agency event and inviting everyone to attend. But, please realize that we are a finite amount of staff in the Google South Africa office...working on a finite amount of clients...so we're engaging with the agencies embedded within our specific client base...configuring and re-configuring this "certification" and capacity building. Once this is complete...we will announce the availability of programs and services to engage and empower EVERYONE!

Please feel free to email me at staffordmasie@gmail.com if I need to clarify further. My team and I will do whatever we possibly can to help...your email will definitely not result in us disbarring you ;-)

Thanks - Stafford Posted on 14 Nov 2008 19:54
Not one of the 5
Too quick to react-
Surely Google's role in SA is to convince the local market to spend more money online? If it is then this is a good thing and I for one am excited about (hopefully) becoming accredited and being able to prove to my clients that my agency knows what it's doing with their online spend. I haven't dealt directly with Google SA yet (we probably aren't big enough) but Google doing their part to weed out fraudulent agencies (and there are a few) is surely a good thing for those of us that aren't? There is no way Google corp is going to let Google SA operate according to different agency rules than the rest of the world! I wouldn't mind hearing from one of the "5" agencies though about whether Google SA is in fact working WITH them to improve their delivery to clients. Anyone? Posted on 14 Nov 2008 21:13
PR
Reputation Management-
Judging by the feedback on this article I guess it is time to call on one of those 'dodgy new media companies' to help you out with your online reputation management. Posted on 14 Nov 2008 22:15
mmm
First thing-
Stafford, first thing you should do monday morning is wake up, phone the editor at Biz Community who published this and release another pr bash apologizing and retracting your comments.

You know as well as i do, you are tarnishing the Google brand in South Africa with your arrogance Posted on 15 Nov 2008 10:04
Me again
concerned but open to debate - me again-
Stafford, call the agency workshop then, regardless of the amount of staff you have in SA, we only need you there and then openly debate your intentions in SA, it is actually quiet a simple solution as I believe you will fill the venue and then address eveyone face to face and clear the air, it's simple my man, JUST DO IT and you could see a shift in public relations and who knows you could save face and your reputation in a 2 hour get together, be humble and react quickly and you will be surprised at the response - it's called Leadership! Oh and by the way if your staff even tried to get back to my numerous calls and emails that would be nice! Posted on 15 Nov 2008 10:30
Agency workshop-
As I responded to Leon earlier; OK - I GET IT...I AGREE! Judging from the comments made here and overall feedback - we need to do this sooner rather than later. I was hoping to do agency focused get-togethers Q1'09 to communicate the certifications, trainings, etc. But, I think we should do this ASAP. I will announce an agency "town hall and gloves off meeting" in Johannesburg and Cape Town before the end of 2009 - this coming week! Thank you so much for the input, comments and suggestions! Stafford Posted on 16 Nov 2008 15:31
who do you think you are!
who do you think you are!-
Stafford - why you using your gmail and not your @googleinc email address??

Are you scared your managers internationally will read whats going on in your email?? dodgy

Stafford, also why dont you ever give a telephone number?? Obviously no one can ever get hold of you on your email, or is it the fact that you are too busy trying to steal clients directly to answer your emails.

Hold a conference stafford, in fact, Google should pay for all delegates to be flown in for it, i wont cough up a cent!!!

And yes, we are one of the bigger agencies in South Africa with corporate clients whom you are going directly to.

I spend my days cleaning up your mess of people you have seen, who then call me and ask me, why are google coming direct when we are already spending money with them through you (the agency)

They are also asking me why you are trying so hard to flog youtube channels,(even tho you know the clients dont get good conversion from them as its mostly international traffic)

Why dont you release a case study of FNB going onto youtube with a Google "partnership WEB 2.0"

Stand up and deliver Stafford ! Posted on 15 Nov 2008 10:52
Ouch ;-)-
Talk about being taken on ;-) Whoa! Ok - I'll respond here specifically to your comments and questions;

1. I am using my staffordmasie@gmail.com address simply because my corporate mailbox is already overflowing. Just trying to use an alternate repository. I have committed to responding within 48 hours to anyone that does email me at this address regarding this subject matter. (I am sure you can understand why I am not providing my telephone number)

2. Yes, we will host a meeting for all agencies in Johannesburg and in Cape Town. It will not be charged for at all.

3. Please let me know who these clients are that we're engaging with outside of you. If they are on our names account list and you are their agency of choice - done! We will work very very closely with you to add value to YOUR client.

4. YouTube - not a product released in South Africa...but we do have clients interested in targeted international YouTube users - that strategy is a work in progress.

5. FNB case study? Sure - will look into it.

6. You said, "Stand up and deliver Stafford!" - will try my best - thanks for the comments and questions!

Stafford Posted on 16 Nov 2008 15:40
Leon-Purple Cow Communications
Time to do something for the good of Online Marketing....!!-
Hey Stafford, clearly loads of feathers have been raffled by the article posted and the comments here and I notice that no-one has actually mentioned who they are in detail and by these comments I doubt you will be hearing from them (and I can understand why!). In normal society if people complain about a company's services and the company doesn't deliver they move to a competitor, but this is obviously not the case in our environment as Google is a 'behemoth' and monopolises the search environment and the competitors are small and certainly not big enough to be able to sustain one's business on. We are a medium size agency and not one of the 'BIG FIVE' (as so promptly named by a previous comment) and yes I have to say I have heard that you have chatted to our clients and yet we have never heard from Google SA. My take on this whole "can of worms' is that it would have been more appropriate to first make contact with all the agencies/clients that actually have been doing business with Google for years now before embarking on a client acquisition strategy and that way you could inform us of your intentions and see how we can work together to grow our clients (so yes I understand the frustrations in the comments above) but I also don't believe mud slinging is to anyone's advantage, not in this emerging search market of ours! I believe that everyone who has commented, myself included, would have preferred some sort of contact with Google SA after all we have injected probably millions by now into your coffers as 'CLIENTS' of yours (and received the benefit I have to say) and yet never had contact with you. I can't say I agree with your 'BIG FIVE' strategy and would prefer to see agencies being vetted according to certain ethical standards that you provide us with in order to ensure ethical practices for the few that may be acting fraudulently but I do believe anyone should be favored amongst all the agencies that do good work for their clients! I fully agree and was thinking the same thing about a previous comment that suggests a workshop with Google SA for all agencies/clients and firstly to introduce yourself to us and secondly to layout your intentions and how you plan to work in SA with the agencies/clients - an excellent idea and as the comment goes on to say - this will do wonders to your reputation, relationships and in keeping with Google's brand which up until now has been admired! I would jump on this idea of a workshop to meet with Google SA and as I previously mentioned we are your clients after all! So as the a previous comment goes ‘JUST DO IT’ to quote another admired brand! Posted on 15 Nov 2008 14:43
Daniel-Shake Interactive
agreed-
Well said Leon. I full agree with you. I think Google should be working alongside us agencies.

We have been working with corporate clients in SA for many years now and have been managing and growing these clients TOGETHER with Google London ( Richard and Carly) to be exact and now the Ireland team. The team in Ireland and our account managers know us and our clients very well.

I support you in what you said that Google have now gone direct to our clients in SA. They have done this to us too. Some of the larger agencies have kept me in the loop saying that Google are coming to see them and then they make themselves look silly by going in and offering Google services. We have been providing these for years.

It was very silly to use the word "fraud", i doubt Stafford would have signed that off himself, its probably a major, MAJOR bugger up from some PR person.

Anyway, Google being Google can make this right and restore confidence in the SA market. They have a great product if used and sold correctly. I believe that by working alongside agencies, they will do far better and agencies will embrace this.

I have a relationship with a few people at Google, but have never met Stafford, however he has met our clients. This is a problem and i hope to resolve that on behalf of Shake and also other agencies in SA.

Daniel Aufrichtig - Shake Interactive Posted on 15 Nov 2008 15:10
Thank you!!!!-
Hi there Daniel - thank you you specifically for being prepared to state who you are and your company name - appreciated! PLEASE do me a favour because I am not sure who your clients are and I have not engaged "Shake Interactive" before (to be honest, it's the first time I've heard of your company - not that I know everyone either!!); Can you send me a couple dates and time you're available to chat? staffordmasie@gmail.com - I would like to resolve this with your specific clients. NOTE: Google South Africa wants to work with agencies...and we would like to ensure we're providing you with a clear message on how to best engage us locally...acting upon your requests and expectations. Let's engage ;-) Stafford Posted on 16 Nov 2008 15:12
Thanks Leon!!-
I appreciate the name and company name ;-) Helps to address things practically! Three responses to your post from me;

1. I would like to specifically meet with you to understand which clients we've engaged outside of you. I do know of Purple Cow but I am not aware of you working with any one of the clients on our named account list. Irrespective, let's meet and discuss where we have overstepped the mark in this regard - If we have, you have my commitment to fix it! Please email me at staffordmasie@gmail.com - couple dates and times.

2. You said; "I can't say I agree with your 'BIG FIVE' strategy" - Leon, I am not announcing any BIG FIVE anything :) We are announcing that we have worked with 5 agencies currently covering our existing named account list...to build the necessary capability, competency and capacity to truly maximize on the Google tools and services...we hope to announce our learnings, best practices, and tools/platforms/etc to ensure everyone can engage in a similar manner to replicate the success - at minimum, to engage us to improve what we've found. At the end of the day; everyone will benefit.

You also said; "would prefer to see agencies being vetted according to certain ethical standards that you provide us with in order to ensure ethical practices for the few that may be acting fraudulently but I do believe anyone should be favored amongst all the agencies that do good work for their clients!" - ABSOLUTELY!!! This is what we have announced on Friday! Q1 2009 we wish to announce tools and services to empower everyone (training schedules/etc.) to ensure we have some commonality and clarity around the optimal delivery and adoption of Google tools and services.

3. Agency workshop - OK - I GET IT...I AGREE! Judging from the comments made here and overall feedback - we need to do this sooner rather than later. I was hoping to do agency focused get-togethers Q1'09 to communicate the certifications, trainings, etc. But, I think we should do this ASAP. I will announce an agency "town hall and gloves off meeting" in Johannesburg and Cape Town - this coming week!

Thank you so much for the input, comments and suggestions!

Stafford Posted on 16 Nov 2008 15:26
Leon
oops-
okay so the feathers have been ruffled and certainly not raffled!! Posted on 15 Nov 2008 14:49
Stafford Masie - Google SA
Google SA final response-
Hi everyone,

I have read all the posts very carefully and tried replying to most as verbosely as possible. I hope I've given a little more insight.

The last few posts made the suggestion of Google SA hosting an agency engagement meeting - I agree completely! Judging from the overall reaction(s) and comments made, there is work to be done within this context.

We will be announcing an agency get-together with Google SA this coming week - it will occur within 2009. At that meeting I hope to meet you all, clarify our positioning and intent, understand your perspectives, and listen to where we can do things better.

Thank you all! (P.S. I won't be reading any more posts on this thread - PLEASE bring any further comments, input, questions, etc to the meeting(s) we will be announcing - let's take the discussion further over there and hopefully we can address all of this in person)

Stafford Masie
Google South Africa Posted on 16 Nov 2008 15:47
Entelligence
Calling all abused agencies-
If any agencies have stories of Google abusing their power, or have cases where Google have gone direct to customers or attempted to undermine the customer relationship. I would love to hear about it. We need a regulated Google as a matter of priority in South Africa, since Stafford obviously does things differently here... because he can.

Send details to sriley@entelligence.co.za or call me - 083 455 1074 Posted on 17 Nov 2008 12:05
Gary
Grow up man!-
Sean, you have exposed yourself clearly here dude! Goodness, you are an idiot!

You have absolutely no interest in constructively working with Google South Africa and we suspect that you are probably the guy behind all the attacking posts above. We can all see that you just want to aggressively attack and embarrass Stafford and Google. It is companies and individuals like you that gives all of us a bad name!

Pathetic! Get a life man!

Stafford, full marks dude! You stuck it out, took the punches, explained yourself very well and we are looking forward to these meetings you promised to have. You have so much work to do here in South Africa and the tasks ahead are monumental. For what it is worth your strategy may not be what we all agree with, but, you have won our support and respect!

Gary Posted on 17 Nov 2008 17:37
Rob
Riley's true colors-
I followed your posts on some blogs regarding Entelligence filing a complaint with the Competition Commission and now this posting from you.

Your unprofessionalism is embarrassing and if I was working with you at Entelligence, I would advise you to discontinue these continual taunts and jabs. What is your problem?!!

It is so clear that you are just out to attack Google and Stafford. Why don't you just close shop or go do work for Yahoo! or some other search engine? Better yet, why don't you just shut up and surface when your so called complaint has been ruled upon, or not, by the commission? Until then, your statements are worthless and you are nothing more than a nag!

If anyone else who associates with you with an objective to 'regulate' Google and Stafford it would be a joke!

Stafford took the risk and time to respond to the comments and attacks. For that he gets our respect. He has said he will announce a meeting for all of us to meet him in person and talk more about our issues. We will take him up on this and not just write him off because you did something iffy with your clients and now you are using blogs and online comments to retaliate.

Man, have you not just stepped in it again?!!

Robert Posted on 17 Nov 2008 17:56
Nice try Sean
Sour grapes Riley-
Sean Riley - sounds like you've got an axe to grind. I hope you're as outspoken as you were on Mike Stopforth's blog when the results of the Competition Board enquiry come out. What happens if you're found out to be fraudulent? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was you behaving unprofessionally (as you're known to) by making all of those rash unfounded comments earlier on in the post. Posted on 17 Nov 2008 16:05
myphotographer
Google is what Google does...-
Make money!

And who can blame Google SA? This is what all of us are trying to do too.

The fact of the matter is that there are no doubt "some" agencies who are misleading clients as well as making poor decisions and the result is faith not only lost in the dodgy agency but also Google.

5 accredited agencies, not 5 exclusive agencies.

But then again, are there people still reading this? HelllOOOOOOOOOO?

And if SM pops by here, nice car! Posted on 17 Nov 2008 16:21
Sean Riley
No Guts-
Sour grapes? Axe to grind? This coming from unidentified authors... at least I put my name next to my comments.

Yes - I do have an axe to grind. When a company that 'partnes' with you attempts to poach your customers & interfere, we'll see how you react.

Sean Riley Posted on 18 Nov 2008 08:00
Chris
Responses from Google SA-
I'm a client, not an agency, but my take on the whole issue is: You reap what you sow. The article I saw(Google aims to stop ‘agency fraud') portrays Google SA (Stafford Masie) as arrogant, generalising and a "showboat". Little thought seems to have gone into his statements about fraud etc. And I disagree with Louise in her subsequent post about Masie. I quote: "I want to commend one thought leader who came in for a lot of flack for sticking his neck out there when highlighting some issues." He had no choice - he had made inflamatory and innacurate comments and was being held to account. And it seemed like he was replacing one foot with another... We have a few politicians like that. Posted on 18 Nov 2008 08:33
concerned strategist
Google Selling Services-
Hi Stafford,
What concerns me is that you are meeting with clients without understanding the full marketing strategy that has been constructed.

You cannot just try sell paid search or a branded youtube channel (which costs 25,000.00 pounds as you don't have a South African model yet...) without considering what is appropriate for clients. This is why you should try interacting with agencies as opposed to providing a separate service.

I know that you don't have a large staff compliment in South Africa and maybe this is a problem. Grow your business by engaging and providing great service to the agencies and then you'll meet whatever targets your bosses have set for you. Posted on 21 Nov 2008 12:20
CorazonDiablo
Give Google a break-
A few years ago there was no such thing as SEO or SEM - I call those 'the good old days'.

Now we have highly paid monkeys who take money to type in a few key phrases and target a few geographical areas and pretend it's brain surgery. These same people were probably the ones selling free portals like Dotnetnuke as 'designer websites'. Rather do it yourself - it's so damn easy. The agencies noses are obviously out of joint because they are used to pulling the wool over their gullible clients' eyes when in fact this type of marketing campaign is probably one of the easiest around.

All you moaners - get a real job. Create your own Google if you are so good. Posted on 21 Nov 2008 16:11
ItsCalledCapitalism
Hey lets Bring in Stalin to run the show- oh he already is!-
Let me guess it's your buddies that you went to a Russian university with(the chosen ones).
The beauty(ex) about Google and why they are succeeding is the Open source environment.
If people can add value by "putting" it together for you,then it should be up to the market to determine the price(free market system).
Google can’t use small "Mavens" to get the word and bugs out and then kill the goose that’s laying the eggs.
The only reason Google is making headway is because individuals are wading through the many complications and bugs to make it easier for the laymen.
Let’s see Google break into the market from their Ivory Tower(Staffords fancy office) (They are starting to sound like Microsoft)
Here use our tools to tell us what’s wrong with them and help us iron out the bugs and figure out what the market actually wants and we will appoint Staffords university buddies to take your client once you’ve done all the hard work.
My business was in the process of learning all the new Google tools and putting the Microsoft one's to bed.
Let's see Buy our tools and do what you like with them vs Free Tools you can help us fix and find markets for and then we will take away your market once we have determined what they need thanks to you. I guess we have now got to the bottom of Googles free plan.Like a drug dealer free now pay later.no Thanks!You can't call it Open source if it's slammed shut.
Is this Google's policy or Stafford's local one as I have not seen complaints like this on the web yet. Posted on 21 Nov 2008 18:09
Rory
Take a good look at yourselves...-
I just stumbled upon this article. I run a small company that uses google PPC and organic listings increasingly to gain business. So I am only semi-familiar with the industry. We have contracted an agency to assist us, particularly on the organic side.

Without knowing all the facts I can quite safely say that Google SA and Stafford are doing something wrong... I have rarely seen such a consistently negative and long blog aimed at a company and a person. Google SA and Stafford need to take a good look at themselves! Google Inc need to take a good look at this blog! Posted on 22 Nov 2008 12:25
hi there - has a date been set for the meeting discussed above?-
lots of talk about setting up a meeting - has anything been done about it? Posted on 25 Nov 2008 10:56
Merlin
Google is great !!!!-
Hi There,

I do not agree with all Stafford' comments.

However, my company (in the top 100 of SA) works directly with Google as we chose not to deal via an agency. We did deal with an agencies before (major ones) but find that working with Google directly is more efficient and cost effective. Their staff is great and knows a lot aout SEM. You guys are assuming incorrectly that the SA staff have no real experience. You would be supprised. We have run awesome campaigns and get maximum exposure. Our CPC rates are some of the lowest in the SA industry thanks to google helping us maximise and structure our adword campaigns correctly.

Agencies do have a tendency to charge more and to be quite frank, I find advertising agencies seriouly lacking when it comes to the digital space.

The Google guys in SA are the greatest team I have ever met and would not ever consider working via an agency with Google.

If the agencies out there are so confident that they now better and have nothing to hide when it comes their charge-out models, show it to the public. Prove your righteousness.!!! Posted on 26 Nov 2008 12:04
Merlin 2
No need for agencies-
'Merlin' from a top 100 company. Prove YOU'RE righteous & let us know what company you're from? Google? Posted on 27 Nov 2008 15:24
cant pretend you are someone e
posting like an ostrich-
Nice post from the Google team.

Well done guys, Posted on 15 Dec 2008 14:34
Same person, same modus operandi, different company-
I remember similar comments about "direct approach" and "bypassing" being passed by business partners (resellers) of his previous company..... Posted on 17 Dec 2008 18:13
Positive
When is this meeting Stafford-
Hey guys anyone know when the boxing match is and where
I will be the one selling the popcorn Ha Ha
Lets forget the past and move on Posted on 18 Jan 2009 03:48
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