I'm not in advertising myself but have a few friends who are. From the idea I get from them - and to some extent what I read - it seems as if the ad industry still has a long way to go in terms of transformation. That said, should people who aren't as creative as the need is, for instance in design, be kept only because they are black? I'm sure if they were good enough they wouldn't be shoved back to do DTP, surely?

Could it be because of bad grammer?*


*You are a "designer" not a "design"!

what's funny is that through the bad grammar you knew exactly what the person tried to convey.. and subsequently responded contextually..

damn...

If you are good enough you will be a success as a designer, if not, you wont....simple as that, Black, White, Green or Blue. Irrespective of colour.
the design industry is overloaded with creative talent and the best will always rise up...and those that are not wont. It is like everything else in life... simple as that.
And Yes, I am white, I am also a designer who did not quite make it in the agency environment, Hit the DTP operator cieling but did not let it get me down... instead I changed my attitude and approach and 2 years on I head up an In-house Design Studio for a JSE listed company and get paid more than I would in an agency.

And the best part, I dont just do design, I am involved in Marketing projects, Functions, Multimedia...every day is different..

Change your attitude and approach and you will see that design and advertising is a very multi-faceted industry and there is oppurtunity for everyone out there, even if you are black.

PS: Please learn how to construct proper sentences.... that would be a good start.

Everyone starts at the bottom and it's urealistic to think that you are a designer because you have studied it or can draw a few stick figures.

My advice to you is to gain the experience and skills you need to do the job properly before you shoot down the entire industry.

Your race isn't holding you back its your give-me attitude and lack of skills.

... if you where good enough for the job, you would have gotten it.
Obviously the talent is not there - so please do not blame it on the colour of your skin.

Seriously... the chances of you being given a job BECAUSE of your skin color is much higher these days. So stop whining...you have nothing to complain about.

Rather work on your skills.

Firstly I don't think the gramatical 'ERROR' contained in the post reflects the Graphic Design ability of my dear brother. I think this guy has a point of some sort. Firstly He just didn't wake up one morning and imagined that such injustice was happening, I'm very positive that he experinced that. Lets be logical here, I don't think ANY ONE of you white oaks has the right to say that the brother is lying firstly because you have never and will NEVER EVER EVER be in his shoes to find out wether such an assumption is true or not, secondly it is a well documented fact within and beyond South African boundaries that South Africa is still full of racial injustice against blacks in certain circles so there is no way what so ever we can rule out the possibility of one of those circles being the Graphic Design industry. I'll give one small piece of advice to my fair skin coloured brothers and that advice is DO NOT BE IGNORANT because ignorance often makes the ignored party angrier(in this case the Black South Africans)So instead of casting a blind eye at the injustices your white ancestors created, and pretending that all is now well in a land were 70% of the native people share less than 30% of the economy I suggest that you help the heirs of South Africa REGAIN a part of their heritage that they are WILLING to EQUALY share with any one is a son or daughter of this great nation wether even if they are a white 'SOUTH AFRICAN'. Look at what ignorance by the minority did to our white brothers and sisters in Zimbabwe and many other African countries.

so when will everybody be treated equally do you think? is reverse discrimination right? in 20 years, can the whites demand work over blacks because they're being discriminated against right now?

I dont think anyone who replied to "your Brothers" Comment ever made it a black and white thing.... you did!!

All anyone is saying is that things dont just get given to you, you have to be good enough and earn them... thats it.

and as for your "logical" approach of giving him a chance because he is a "Brother" and not on his abilities...
Ask Eskom, Telkom, Dept of Home Affairs etc how that policy worked out for them....
The Race Card makes me sick....until everyone, black and white gets over it and forgets about it... Racism will never be dead.

...but look what IGNORANCE did to Zimbabwe and its entire population. And, my friend, look what it's doing to ours (Hello, ESKOM?! Who was ignorant and is now pointing fingers?). I was in the advertising industry for 15 years and it was always the candidate (white, black, coloured, indian, asian, gay, lesbian...who the h*ll cares?!) with the best attitude, not necessarily the skills who got the job. Skills can always be taught. Good luck with the AA (Attitude Adjustment!).

...and why are you so angry? And why have you brought that septic poisonous attitude into an industry that really doesn't need it...most designers I know are screwed in the head already (me included!!!). Get over yourself, get rid off that chip on your shoulder and design stuff that will change the world in a positive way. That "cry me a river" attitude is so early 90's. Have you perhaps noticed the year that we are currently in...?

I respect your comment i will all people can be the same and the country will grow a better country!

I think its safe to assume that this was the original Topic poster... Clearly English is not his greatest strength....
anyhows... if you cant beat them, join them.... "REPECT TO ALL THE BROTHERS OUT THERE"......must be some new street lingo or something. LMAO!

As a black person I think you should start your own agency if existing agencies don't wanna employ you... or you face the glass.. erm what's that thing again..??

We have 35 million black people in South Africa, and who better to convey brand mesages to them than people that live, look, think and talk like them.

Invest in a copy of Muzi Khuzwayo's "marketing through mud & dust" while you're at it... or borrow my copy..

I am confused - 2 years ago when I was working in agencies, white designers were at the bottom of the pecking list. Hiring would be as follows: Look for a black designer. Then, several months later, if you don't come right (because there are not enough black designers to fill all the positions), work your way through the other races, and if the position still hasn't been filled, call in the white guys.

Now, as a freelancer, I have to prove my worth to companies... because I am white and they want black suppliers! So where in South Africa are you that people don't want to hire you?!! A good black designer is an asset to any company! I can only presume it is your skill level/projected attitude which is holding you back. If not, I will be your recruitment agent (50% commission please!) :D

Seriously though, good luck - you will find the right job! And don't knock the DTP operators, they are usually the backbone of the studio!!

I would not neccessarily suggest that designers should stay away or not accept offers from Agencies because in a nutshell a person needs experience and wether we like agencies or not they provide that. Simply because you will need it if you ever think of venturing on your own. For an example say i consult a specialist in his/her particular field as a client i have the right to know the amount of experience this specialist have despite the talent. So in this regard get the neccessary or relevant experience before concluding. I've been working as a ['design' he he that's just funny] designer for close to three years and if i want to be viewed as a professional or specialist in my area i need relevant qualities. The other thing is invest in yourself i.e when you have the opportunity to learn or study or simply enhacing your skill do so and am sure any Creative Director out there will recognise that and in return you can have a 'voice' i.e being in a position to be able to negotiate your package.

And huh Mr 'Design' am also black but had the privilidge to work in a vibey design studio so stop whining and creating excuses just get on with it. If you are good enough YOU WILL get a break more so than our white counterparts [which in my view is unfair but thats a topic for another day].

Thanks

LOL

I am a black designer and was treated fairly in the industry. The race issue only became an issue when I started my own company. I found that although industries were hiring black designers or contracting black design studios, they only did so for protocol. In reality, they preferred white companies especially for young companies like mine.

So as the only full-time employee of my company backed with my not-so-bad portfolio, I hired a white guy to become my face. He comes from a strategic background but all the design work he presents to clients I do. They never question him and since they are more open to 'his' ideas. We both win.

But to be fair, I don't think the race issue has anything to do with design. As a black girl, I went to schools that offered no arts and I didn't even know what design is and this is probably the case with a lot of black people. I probably visited the first art gallery at age 17. My point is that most older design companies are white-owned for that reason and most well-established designers are white because design is new to us. So although some form of disscrimination might occur (a tiny version of it), decades from now the industry will be full of TALENTED DESIGNERS REGARDLESS OF COLOUR AND GENDER. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

chief.. cant we SA talk about something without mentioning race.. look man im black and didn't make it in the design industry, not because i can't design or because of my skin color.. what i did was start my own media company and targeted the millions of black companies out there.. i didn't need the white owned big companies to succeed..

Strength in numbers.. besides the govt have billions of rands set aside for smme's.. take advantage of that and stop bothering white people..